{"id":167,"date":"2026-05-29T17:20:36","date_gmt":"2026-05-29T17:20:36","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/commercialrelocationpros.com\/?p=167"},"modified":"2026-05-29T17:20:36","modified_gmt":"2026-05-29T17:20:36","slug":"why-everyone-hates-ai-data-centers","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/commercialrelocationpros.com\/?p=167","title":{"rendered":"Why Everyone Hates AI Data Centers"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Data centers are quickly becoming the most polarizing buildings in America. On this episode of Galaxy Brain<\/em>, Charlie Warzel speaks with the reporter Jael Holzman about the backlash to the buildings powering the AI boom. Why have data centers become controversial? What are the environmental, economic, and political impacts? How does the backlash track along left\/right party lines? This episode demystifies the data-center fight.<\/p>\n

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The following is a transcript of the episode:<\/em><\/p>\n

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Jael Holzman:<\/strong> The conversation around data centers is easily a pain sponge. But you gotta wonder where that water is coming from and what that sponge really is made of, because what that sponge is made of is so many local conflicts stitched together.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n

[Music<\/em>]<\/strong><\/p>\n

Charlie Warzel:<\/strong> I\u2019m Charlie Warzel, and this is Galaxy Brain<\/em>, a show where today we\u2019re going to talk about the most polarizing buildings in America: I\u2019m talking about data centers.<\/p>\n

Data centers have been around for decades; they\u2019ve been powering much of what we do online. But the AI boom has created this ravenous need for more computing power, and, in the process, something extraordinary seems to be happening: People across the political spectrum are coming together in opposition to these data centers. The AI backlash has galvanized people like Bernie Sanders and AOC [Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]\u2014they\u2019ve proposed a data-center moratorium in Congress. But also the populist right, where figures like Steve Bannon are arguing that tech elites who are investing billions in the AI-infrastructure build-out are \u201ctotally out of control.\u201d<\/p>\n

Most notable, though, is the reaction from regular citizens. A May Gallup poll found that 70 percent of Americans oppose the construction of an AI data center in their community. Across the country, in local town halls and community meetings, grassroots activists and concerned residents are coming together to protest these projects, and, in many cases, they\u2019re winning. As the website Heatmap reported this month, at least 20 proposed data centers were canceled following local opposition in the first quarter of 2026.<\/p>\n

The stakes of this fight on either side are reasonably clear. The Big Tech AI hyperscalers are investing historic sums in these buildings. According to my colleague Matteo Wong, \u201cMicrosoft, Amazon, Meta, and Google alone have already spent more on data centers since the launch of ChatGPT than the federal government spent to build the entire interstate-highway system.\u201d Tech companies need to keep building these facilities. And they need to do it fast in order to keep up with demand\u2014but also this expectation that these models get better and better.<\/p>\n

But data centers are expensive. They take a lot of time to build. And data centers have become this potent symbol for those who are skeptical of AI. They represent a physical incursion of big tech into the communities. Many data centers are loud; some are powered by natural-gas turbines. There are local fears here\u2014about energy use, water use, pollution\u2014and there are national fears about data centers driving up energy prices.<\/p>\n

Some of these issues are clear cut: Data centers are huge, they\u2019re loud, they\u2019re industrial. But other issues, like water use\u2014those are highly contested by people who say that the concern may be overblown.<\/p>\n

Like so many political issues, the data-center fight seems to cleave people into two distinct camps. Those who see the buildings as wasteful, polluting, as the engine of a technology they\u2019re anxious about. And those who see data centers as an engine of progress, part of an American infrastructure boom.<\/p>\n

This conflict is still incredibly new, and there\u2019s a lot of confusing or bad information out there about data centers. It seems clear that AI is about to collide with electoral politics, both in the midterms and in the 2028 race. What\u2019s the real economic and environmental impact of these buildings? How do the politics of data centers track against left\/right party lines? What do people stand to lose and gain when these buildings pop up in our towns?<\/p>\n

Jael Holzman is a reporter for the climate website Heatmap and author of its newsletter, The Fight. She\u2019s been covering environmental conflicts in politics like mining, renewable energy, and industrial decarbonization. And for the last few months she\u2019s turned her focus full time to reporting on the data-center backlash and the policy fight therein. Her work has been instructive in demystifying what\u2019s actually going on inside these buildings and across the country. She joins me now to talk about it all.<\/p>\n

[Music<\/em>]<\/strong><\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Jael, welcome to Galaxy Brain<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Holzman: <\/strong>Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> So I want to start extremely basic here. What exactly is a data center? Like how do these buildings, very broadly, work? And why in really the last year, last six months, as a structure, have they become so controversial?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Well, data centers aren\u2019t a new thing. Their invention goes back to the early to mid-20th century, the rise of computing in general. Now we\u2019re seeing a rise of data centers specifically because of artificial intelligence, and the sheer amount of compute\u2014computers whizzing and buzzing, et cetera, et cetera\u2014needed to do all of what Claude and ChatGPT enable in our modern society.<\/p>\n

Why are people upset about data centers? I\u2019ve been spending a lot of time as a journalist trying to understand that question as of late. I think people have a lot of reasons they say they don\u2019t want these projects. We find that it\u2019s an incredibly bipartisan concern right now. Recent data from Heatmap News\u2019s pro platform has found local opposition exploded in the first quarter of this year to record highs. That\u2019s just registering examples where local data-center fights were showing up in local media or in local-community meeting minutes, things like that.<\/p>\n

This is happening not just because of the impacts that people claim, but it\u2019s worth saying that just a broad social change like this is almost necessarily going to invite a huge amount of upset and angst. We\u2019ve seen that with all other sorts of technological innovations. I see a lot of people who are saying they\u2019re upset about data centers, who were upset about vaccines before that, who were upset about masking before that, as well as about renewable energy.<\/p>\n

People who were worried about getting cancer from wind turbines, now worried about getting cancer from a data center. Picking apart fact versus fiction, understanding people\u2019s motivations, has never been more important. And we\u2019re honestly still in the beginning phases of getting any of this. Just as new as AI itself.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Talking about that backlash, there\u2019s this recent Gallup poll that\u2019s been passed around. That seven in 10 Americans opposing constructing data centers for AI in their local area. Forty-eight percent coming in as strongly opposed. Barely a quarter in favor. What are those fights, since you\u2019ve been covering them\u2014what do they look like on the ground level? Is this response inside of communities\u2019 really loud, boisterous city council meetings? Are we talking about on-the-street protests in these communities? What is the shape of the fight on the ground?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> So here\u2019s how it looks in so many rivers and dells across the United States right now. A real-estate company or a shell company shows up and says that they would like to develop property either for a data center itself or for a tech campus. And it\u2019s broad, but then it eventually becomes a data center.<\/p>\n

Who the ultimate inheritor of that property is going to be\u2014whether it be one of the several but not that many tech giants that are using these facilities or whether it be, you know, an individual magnate who\u2019s going to benefit enormously from the transaction\u2014a lot of that information is actually shielded from the public view. There\u2019s not the kind of years-long disclosure process that you and I are used to seeing in things. Like, They\u2019re going to build a giant wind farm. It\u2019s going to go through a big permitting process, et cetera<\/em>.<\/p>\n

A lot of the time, because this stuff is showing up as real-estate projects first, the public is learning about these projects as they\u2019re being approved, many of the time. And I\u2019m sure companies would argue that they are trying to get out ahead, but I\u2019ve yet to see a lot of instances where that\u2019s really the case. Too often I find it\u2019s a shell company, or it\u2019s a \u201cstartup\u201d that showed up and then is ultimately going to give its property to Amazon or to Google or somebody else.<\/p>\n

If you\u2019re living around that area, you almost naturally are going to be upset. You\u2019re like: Wait, I didn\u2019t sign up for this. I didn\u2019t have a vote on this.<\/em> And you\u2019re also not really accustomed to your local leaders having such consequence in your life. We haven\u2019t had a big industrial build-out like this in so long. And so you\u2019re seeing people flood out to local meetings where, before this, people weren\u2019t even paying that much attention to their city council or their county commission. Suddenly they are showing up; they\u2019re learning who those people are, and this is how they get to know them.<\/p>\n

You know, I was reading this morning about a someone running for municipal office who left the Republican Party, in a small county in the middle of Kentucky, because he was so upset, and how the political alignment just isn\u2019t responding to the angst over data centers. And so you\u2019re seeing this pushback\u2014these forces directed and vented in new ways that we\u2019re not used to seeing. Recent politics being nationalized, and these fights being nationalized. This is going to have impacts throughout our politics for years to come. And this is only the beginning.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s really interesting to talk about the structure of some of those real-estate transactions. The nondisclosure of it all, or the shell-company part of it.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Because even if it\u2019s not necessarily structured to be nefarious in any way, it feels that way when it comes into your community. If you\u2019re like, Whoa, whoa, what is this? Now you\u2019re telling me this is Amazon?<\/em> Whereas an Amazon facility, you know, a distribution facility with all the trucks, you kind of do know what it is. And there is that way in which the secrecy behind this is a real factor here that I wasn\u2019t really thinking about.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> I think also people are just not used to, the ordinary Joe Shmoe is not used to dealing with the energy and tech-development space, right? So on the left, what this reminds me most of is actually the anti-mining movement in the U.S. and where it has sat for the last 10, 15 years. We\u2019ve tried to have a bit of a mining boomlet, in part due to the demand for things like batteries for electric cars and cell phones, mining stuff like lithium, cobalt, graphite. And the progressive left in this country really couldn\u2019t define the evil there. It was kind of running headlong into the climate movement and the push to develop more stuff to decarbonize.<\/p>\n

At the same time, there was this push against renewable energy on the very far-right, conservative sect that started to gain steam over the past five years, in part driven by the push for this energy transition away from fossil fuels. You saw this push against solar farms and wind farms on farmland, these concerns about battery-storage technology and potential Chinese control there. Which are baseless, for the most part. Once again, we\u2019re talking about movements. We\u2019re not necessarily talking about facts, right?<\/p>\n

Either way, both of these movements failed to really define a political mainstream. They could affect things on a local level. They could affect individual politicians\u2019 conversations on these issues, but they didn\u2019t really have a place for them all to congregate at one time. And when you boil these movements down, they really do represent a left-right horseshoe theory of politics that is far more complex than NIMBYism, but does ultimately wind up in a similar place. Where you\u2019re kind of just arguing against development that is happening in other countries, that other countries are going to do to try to dominate. And it\u2019s not like AI is going away.<\/p>\n

The folks who push on this movement oftentimes would argue that the solution is to just not use artificial intelligence, but that rarely works in this country, let alone elsewhere. And so you wind up in this place where there\u2019s ripe, fertile ground in pre-existing political movements on both sides of the political spectrum that do sort of operate in a similar space, which allows for this movement to be so powerful. The time has never been more apt for a very grassroots populist movement against very wealthy tech magnates, energy-industry magnates, with fuel prices going higher. The issue here is like\u2014what is the end goal, right?<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> And this is what I\u2019m trying to best understand. What is the end goal of the anti-data-center movement right now, aside from just banning it indefinitely? And on top of that, where is the movement to get the industry to actually be more socially responsible, to get more socially responsible projects? Less kind of Colossus xAI situations, where you hear about the NAACP suing for environmental racism.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> And that, by the way, just for listeners, the Colossus is one of the sort of best-known data centers. It\u2019s in Memphis, right?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> There\u2019s two facilities in the Memphis metro area, and there have been reported issues around them operating gas turbines without proper permits. Alleged in part because Elon Musk and xAI have just kind of publicly moved forward in this way. It\u2019s not exactly like they\u2019re hiding the situation. It\u2019s more of a \u201cmove fast and break things\u201d approach to land development and large industrial facilities that Silicon Valley is exporting into rural areas. And now we\u2019re seeing the results.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> But, just for the record, Musk has also said that the turbines are mobile. He said they\u2019re temporary, and thus they are exempt from the more stringent air permitting. One of the things that I\u2019m seeing is this constant conversation about resources. Can you talk to me a little bit about, like\u2014using water as an example\u2014how this conversation is so polarized?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> What I find is that when I cover a community that\u2019s upset about water, this is also a community that was already upset about how much water was being used. It\u2019s additive, right? I think the headline becomes \u201cPeople Hate Data Center Because of Water Use,\u201d when in reality, people hate data center in that case because: Here\u2019s another water user<\/em>. Right? I don\u2019t think people are just looking at it in a vacuum the way that some folks, the loudest folks on the internet, might seem.<\/p>\n

That being said, water is far less of an issue to your day-to-day life in data-center development\u2014as far as what my reporting shows\u2014then the energy impacts, then the noise impacts. I think one of the things we don\u2019t talk about that is one of the most profound impacts of data-center development in a particular community is the noise. And there can be many forms of noise pollution from a data center. Both heard as well as what some people claim is perceived from the vibration of things like large gas turbines or the whizzing of an air-cooling facility. You\u2019re in a position where these projects really do impact communities.<\/p>\n

And there are too many examples now like the xAI data center. I visited a project, a Vantage data center in Sterling, Virginia, the VA2 project, where the noise pollution is so profound that when you go there, you feel it in your body. You can\u2019t even hide it. And you feel the vibration, and then you smell the air, and it doesn\u2019t smell right. It smells tainted. There\u2019s something to be said for how there aren\u2019t enough good cases. And as a journalist, I\u2019m looking for those, and I\u2019m excited to tell those.<\/p>\n

I hate to bring them up again, but it reminds me too much of the hard-rock mining industry. The hard-rock mining industry has modernized over the past few decades, and there are much cleaner mines than what people today think of when they think of \u201cGuy in hard hat goes and creates open-pit gold mine.\u201d Especially in technologies like lithium. The extraction processes, they do have negative impacts, but it\u2019s not this sprawling, for lack of a better term, colossus of a site, right?<\/p>\n

I feel like the data-center industry, and we\u2019re starting to hear people even in VC world explain the data-center sector, the tech companies behind it. There is a need to get better at storytelling, to hire people in community relations who have a background in those communities. You know, the oil industry has said for a long time that they\u2019re able to work so well in places like Texas because they get good land agents. You know, they\u2019ve invested their time and livelihoods for a very long time into getting the land and using the resources.<\/p>\n

People are so upset in part because the tech sector is treating data-center development like bug testing. You know, it\u2019s like A-B testing. You\u2019re trying out a community, and you\u2019re gonna see if it works and if it doesn\u2019t, then they go away. And philosophically, that makes sense if you\u2019ve been doing it for a long time. But that\u2019s not how large real-estate projects work. That\u2019s not how large energy projects work in this country. Or at least it hasn\u2019t been for a very long time.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> What is the flip side here? What is the upshot of a data center coming to your town? Economic benefits, tax breaks? What does a town stand to gain from letting a data center get built here?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> I think data centers offer a lot to a community in a moment with declining revenues from state and federal governments to fund crucial social services for you and I. There is an argument to be made that the sheer magnitude of tax revenue going into some of these communities could replace cuts to Medicaid, could replace cuts to Head Start. One can easily make an argument that this is where the money is coming from; you should really consider taking that money and rolling with it.<\/p>\n

There is a credible argument there. Look at northern Virginia. So much tax revenue goes to northern Virginia now from being Data Center Alley, as some folks colloquially call it. The flip side can be found in Loudoun County [Virginia], or in a state like Alaska. I mean, the corollary here is that if you rely on oil and gas revenue for your state\u2019s budget, eventually you will kind of be reliant on that industry to a point where you\u2019re not able to successfully regulate it effectively to what the people want. And that\u2019s what\u2019s happening in Loudoun County, where within the past couple of weeks, staff for the county have started warning that their budget is on track to be 60 percent data-center revenues. And they\u2019re actually very concerned about how much data-center money is providing a foundation for their living, and recommending against relying on so much data-center money.<\/p>\n

Read more Photos of the Week: Memorial Day, Spelling Bee, Cheese Rolling<\/a><\/p>\n

But I would argue there is certainly benefit to a tax base in particular. Aside from that, these facilities don\u2019t really do much. It\u2019s not like they\u2019re providing milk or power themselves. One argument that I have heard, though, from this guy Duncan Campbell from DER Taskforce\u2014smart energy wonk that I follow on Twitter\u2014this idea of if they\u2019re going to build on-site power, you could connect them to the grid. And then when they are not fully operating, or if you force them to curtail their power for a bit, all of a sudden you\u2019re building all this new electricity generation, riding on the coattails of the data-center industry. Stuff like that, which I think is pretty novel, could help to make this a win-win situation. But that\u2019s going to require policy makers to do a lot more than they\u2019re doing now.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Well, let me ask about the electricity part of this. I feel like you see data centers connected to driving up these electricity costs. And I know it\u2019s complicated. But how do you, if you\u2019re at a bar with someone who\u2019s concerned about this, like how do you calibrate that concern?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> I think because energy prices are up across the board, and because the economy currently for a lot of people feels like it\u2019s not properly designed to benefit those in the lower and lower-middle class, I think you\u2019re going to just incessantly find people upset about the new thing. Whether it\u2019s a data center or Walmart.<\/p>\n

If I\u2019m talking to someone about data centers at a bar, the first thing that comes up is like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates, not the energy bill. And the reason for that is because data centers make a really, really good symbol for populist politicians to rail against the, for lack of a better term, \u201cEpstein class\u201d or \u201cBill Gates class.\u201d Or, you know, name your very wealthy controversial person.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> The oligarchs, yeah.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Yeah, the oligarchs. It\u2019s like, Here come these big tech guys\u2014coming in and putting in a giant thing I didn\u2019t want in my community. No one listened to me. I didn\u2019t know about it until later.<\/em> And there\u2019s secrecy, too. I\u2019m doing a lot of reporting now on the online right wing and how they\u2019ve embraced the anti-data-center movement. Folks like Matt Walsh and Tucker Carlson have even picked up the mantle. And it\u2019s hard not to look at this from a layperson\u2019s perspective as\u2014absent some intervention, absent some very smart political communication and PR from the tech industry, it\u2019s going to be hard to back this \u201cjust elites coming in and trying to take over our community\u201d argument for a lot of low-information, laypeople, Joe Schmoes in America.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> This brings me to how, and we\u2019ve touched on this a little bit already, but how this fight breaks along\u2014because it is sort of united on the left and the right, as we\u2019ve said\u2014but how it breaks along these partisan lines. Can you describe for me a little bit of where the left splinters off on this, and where the right does? You sort of alluded to it with the Matt Walshes and the Tucker Carlsons there for the right. But I\u2019m curious to make that a little more legible for people.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Yeah, sure. So what Heatmap News\u2019s data shows is that one of the top predictors, if not the top predictor, of opposition to whether it be a renewable energy project or a data center project is if they voted for Barack Obama for president and then Donald Trump. It is, without a doubt, a fantastic nexus for the left-to-right horseshoe politics that looks a little bit like NIMBYism, is far more complex and intermingled in class-grievance politics, paranoia about surveillance, paranoia about elites.<\/p>\n

Where the right and the left converge here is a political coalition that might prove quite powerful in the future. You have, you know, campaigns like what we\u2019re seeing with Graham Platner for Senate in Maine. I recently interviewed the candidate, and he explained to me how terrified he is of AI and the idea that AI data centers are just going to be built out without any regulation, as he put it, in place at all. It\u2019s the same thing that folks like Congresswoman Nancy Mace, who\u2019s running for governor in South Carolina; she tweeted yesterday asking if she should ban data centers in South Carolina for at least a year. You\u2019re seeing this animus picked up on both a far-left and a further-right convergence that, to me, where it leads is the bigger question.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not entirely sure what drives this convergence, except a lot of commonalities that both parties had and may not have realized until right now. And the last thing I\u2019ll say, on that note, is I don\u2019t really know where the constituency is for the pro-data-center movement in the United States. I think that\u2019s yet to be fully determined.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> You talked about your interview with Graham Platner, presumably the Democratic nominee in Maine. He talks about the AOC\/Bernie data-center-moratorium idea. I\u2019m curious about that. This idea of pausing, and where you see that. Because I don\u2019t quite know whether the idea of the moratorium is more symbolic, or is it actually in your mind much more of a political opposition? Of \u201cNo, no, no, no, no; we do not want these being built\u201d?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> It\u2019s a \u201cyes and.\u201d There is a negotiating argument, as the proponents will say, and I\u2019ve spoken to folks throughout the movement for a national moratoria. That it provides leverage in the push to further regulate the sector. That maybe by calling for a moratorium, some people in the middle will go, \u201cOkay, well, we don\u2019t want to ban this, but we should probably regulate it more.\u201d But what\u2019s interesting is that I\u2019m not just seeing people calling to ban it from the left. You know, like I\u2019m starting to see people call for banning it on the further right of the U.S. political spectrum, in the mainstream.<\/p>\n

And that, I think, is rooted in people\u2019s concerns about their utility bills. I think that is just, when you get down to it, enough people are afraid of this and want to push pause. Local governments have been enacting moratoria on developing certain kinds of things until they develop zoning ordinances as long as local government has existed. This isn\u2019t exactly a newfangled thing on that scale. The idea of a national AI data-center moratorium sounds ridiculous if you think of the federal government as divorced from that.<\/p>\n

But maybe AOC and Bernie Sanders want to turn the federal government into a zoning opportunity. I\u2019m not entirely sure. I think we still need to learn more about where they want this to go. You know, even when you dig into the legislation, like the bill itself on an AI data-center moratorium, it\u2019s not entirely clear on when it would end. You know, it references the need for more study. It references until such regulation is in place. But it\u2019s not really clear cut. And I think even folks like the Senate candidate, Graham Platner, in our interview, pointed that out to me, saying: \u201cI don\u2019t want a moratorium for the sake of just a moratorium. We need to regulate this industry. We need to make sure it\u2019s actually responsible.\u201d<\/p>\n

And it wouldn\u2019t surprise me if we see more voices on the left and the right calling for, you know, \u201cWe don\u2019t want a ban just for a ban. We want to actually have smart policy here.\u201d That is, we\u2019ve yet to really get to that discussion, but that\u2019s where I think it\u2019s going to head.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> A climate of the data-center fight that is very fascinating to me is the idea that for the time being, these data centers, many of them are being powered by decidedly not green-energy means. It seems to me that, broadly speaking, a fear here would be that the proliferation of these data centers is essentially halting any possible clean-energy build-out, right? Wouldn\u2019t that necessarily be something that someone on the right would want to latch on to? To say, \u201cHey, yes, let\u2019s get more reliant on the natural gas, on this beautiful clean coal.\u201d Where\u2019s the tension there?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s what the administration is doing. That\u2019s what the Trump administration is doing. That\u2019s what I would call \u201cconservative energy world\u201d is sort of bandying around. At the same time, I talked to folks who are worried about the fact that a lot of the capital that was going to go toward renewable-energy build-out when the Inflation Reduction Act, the country\u2019s first climate law, was passed under Joe Biden is now going toward building these large data centers. At least that\u2019s what they say. The data there is actually a little more mixed. I mean, the data centers were already going to be built out. AI was already coming. So there\u2019s a complicated argument there.<\/p>\n

And now the debate within the environmentalist space, within the climate-advocacy space, which is not the same thing, is around: Do you ride this wave and try to make it as clean as possible in the hopes that it can be a gush of demand on the grid that then brings about the kind of rapid energy build-out that folks had long wanted? Or do you oppose this, because it\u2019s not possible to make it cleaner? That there is no amount of regulation that\u2019s really going to happen here that will suffice? And by slowing it down, you delay what could be dirtier in order to make it cleaner, right?<\/p>\n

I think that there\u2019s a growing number of people calling for moratoria until there\u2019s a regulation in place that says, \u201cHey, all of the power needs to be solar, wind, nuclear.\u201d The issue here is I don\u2019t think that the climate movement calling for moratoria, for a ban on data centers, is in any way the same as the anti-renewable-energy people that are also calling for a ban on data centers.<\/p>\n

And so my concern as a journalist is that I talk to too many people who are calling for a moratoria who don\u2019t seem to understand what ramifications could come with them getting in bed with a movement that wants to ban solar energy and wind energy for conspiratorial means. I don\u2019t see anyone really reckoning with that kind of game with fire.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> To complicate the data-center part, though, even more is you have someone like Sam Altman making arguments on podcasts that like, \u201cYes, unfortunately there\u2019s, you know, gas and turbines powering these things. That\u2019s not ideal. But if we can get enough compute to train the models to be good enough and to be powerful enough, perhaps they will help us, you know, with perfectly clean fusion technology.\u201d Is anyone buying that argument?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> When I was talking to someone this morning for my newsletter, we were struck, both of us, in how we agree there\u2019s not really anyone leading right now through this. Ordinarily, I think with an industry this insurgent, you would expect someone like the U.S. president to be kind of guiding the country through this. But it feels like the administration is so supportive of AI data centers. It\u2019s a \u201clet a thousand flowers bloom\u201d situation where, yeah, there might be a couple fights. Also by approaching it in a deregulatory way, maybe you can just have such a booming economy that people aren\u2019t really complaining as much about that. I don\u2019t know how that\u2019s going to work in an era with higher fuel prices, but we are where we are.<\/p>\n

And so I think someone\u2019s going to need to step in, either through a lower political level or through a race for the presidency or through industry vectors or maybe even new media to be kind of a leading voice on this issue. It feels like we don\u2019t really have one. We have a chorus of pro-AI voices who say a lot of things that ordinary people, because there\u2019s so much suspicion about technology, just don\u2019t really take on face value. And then we have an environmental constituency, an activism constituency, that a lot of people also see as one-sided and motivated in part by specific aims. So I feel like we\u2019re still in this open field with a lot at stake, but no one really driving the car through the field\u2014if this metaphor is going to end with us in a ditch in a field.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> We\u2019re somewhere in a field. That\u2019s all we know.<\/p>\n

Holzman: <\/strong>We\u2019re somewhere in a ditch in a field.<\/p>\n

Warzel: <\/strong>I\u2019m curious how much of this you feel is totally genuine. Or if there\u2019s an element of the tails wagging the dog here, right? Of media coverage about data centers then creates more media coverage, which leads to more ambient anxiety and anger, and this politics and this movement. And I\u2019m curious, when you see it\u2014going into these communities and reporting\u2014how much of this moment right now feels entirely grassroots, versus a product of the cycle that I\u2019m describing?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> I do not in any way wish to diminish the many people who just learned about this large thing coming to their community, and then told everyone in their community on Facebook. That does seem to be quite often the case. What I do think is happening now is that there are digital media outlets, organizations by the names of More Perfect Union, for example, that do get a lot of internet engagement off of telling people stories of conflicts around artificial-intelligence data centers.<\/p>\n

What I also know is that when people talk about this stuff on social media, it gets a lot of traction. And so you have these authentic moments of virality, and then other figures do come in and then see that and decide to start talking about that too. The thing is, your average person wasn\u2019t paying attention to a local government meeting before that data-center conversation came in. And I still don\u2019t know how an online din is leading to people showing up in their city-council hearing.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve spoken to folks in places like rural Pennsylvania who worked in health care and then suddenly found themselves making videos where they exposed the inner conversations between data-center developers and the state government. These people do exist, and they\u2019re not being bankrolled. I think it\u2019s just the internet conversation is forming its own kind of Ouroboros. Like I think Twitter is eating its own tail on data centers. And then in the meantime, with that din going on, there are just real fights happening in so many communities around this issue, that does bind so many motivations on not just the left but also on the right.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> I find myself wondering whether the anger and the backlash at all of this, and all of that, what we\u2019re talking about, the algorithmic salience of all of this stuff. I wonder if it\u2019s correctly calibrated, or whether people are mad at the wrong thing. Or whether any of that really matters, because, you know, there\u2019s this low-grade concern about AI that people have everywhere, right? My kids are using it in school.<\/em> Or whatever. My boss is making me use it. I love it. I hate it.<\/em><\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Yeah. And that\u2019s driving some of this too, right? I mean, some of this is just people upset at data centers because they know the more data centers, the more AI compute.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Right. So you talked about them as this symbol. I have been thinking of them as a national pain sponge, right? They just represent whatever fears or concerns you have, and you can direct it at the project. But part of me wonders if there isn\u2019t just the bigger, like the omni-fear\u2014which is just the idea that there are going to be winners and losers in the AI boom. And there has been very little messaging and very little indication from these big AI firms and the culture that regular, average Joe Schmo is going to be the winner.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n

Warzel: <\/strong>And so what all of this really is, is just this reaction to who stands to profit, right? Who stands to consolidate power.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> The conversation around data centers is easily a pain sponge. But you gotta wonder where that water is coming from and what that sponge really is made of, because what that sponge is made of is so many local conflicts stitched together. And it feels wrong to lose sight of the real concern, the very real fear, that your average farmer in rural Pennsylvania and rural Ohio is having. And I think dealing with that is something that\u2019s generational. Like, this is going to be a generational fight over how we even reckon with the politics around data centers.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Do you feel that the coming national-politics part of this is going to distort what this whole fight is about? And muddy the waters for the generational fight that is to come?<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Well, before we talk about the generational fight\u2014and the politics that are to come in the midterms and in the 2028 presidential race around AI data centers\u2014it\u2019s also worth noting how much money the AI sector is spending on elections right now. And how much of an impact they\u2019re trying to have on not just federal races, but state races, even local races. I think you\u2019re going to see an even greater role played in 2028 than in this election cycle.<\/p>\n

And I also think that you won\u2019t always find the critics of the AI data-center sector winning out, because I don\u2019t necessarily see the far right having a different view than the far left on AI data centers right now. I think both poles really want this to stop. It\u2019s just for entirely different reasons, which I think those sides are going to need to sort out and figure out how they feel about that.<\/p>\n

What\u2019s going to happen, I think, is you\u2019re going to have this very techno-optimist middle rise up. And it may be such a large tent that it brings in enough voters to be a durable political coalition. And that techno-optimist future goes: \u201cNo, let\u2019s not ban data centers. Let\u2019s figure out a way to build a better society with it. Let\u2019s figure out how to take that tax revenue, put it toward transmission-infrastructure upgrades, wires. And then bring the data-center power back onto the grid. And then all of sudden, look, we have cheaper power\u2014and I can cut your taxes now, because the data center helped with that.\u201d I think you\u2019re going to have that push.<\/p>\n

And the question is whether or not, in this very populist political environment, you see this middle win out. Or if those two diametric poles that are very, very angry at this elite class and a infrastructure build-out that they don\u2019t really think they\u2019re going to benefit from at all, whether or not those poles are actually the more powerful ones. I think that because the Obama-Trump coalition is such a good predictor and touchstone for the anti-AI-data-center angst, it might be that the same forces that elected Donald Trump are the forces behind this backlash.<\/p>\n

And it\u2019s yet to be determined, but I feel like that\u2019s honestly more likely than the left being the anti-data-center camp and the right being the pro-data-center camp. So, I mean, I think in the future, it may be that there\u2019s actually a race for president in 2028 where both candidates of both parties are criticizing data centers, and trying to figure out who is the most anti-data-center candidate out there. That feels like more likely than, you know, a polarization over whether or not to develop them.<\/p>\n

Warzel:<\/strong> Hearing you say that, I think it\u2019s a very safe bet to assume that the politics are going to be fractured and weird and potentially incoherent in ways, and very coherent in other ways. I think that\u2019s like a very good bet. It\u2019s going to be really fascinating to watch this play out. Hopefully we can have you on again to talk about it as it goes. But Jael, thank you so much for coming on and demystifying the next great local\/national fight.<\/p>\n

Holzman:<\/strong> Thanks for having me on, Charlie.<\/p>\n

[Music<\/em>]<\/strong><\/p>\n

Warzel: <\/strong>That\u2019s it for us here. Thank you again to my guest, Jael Holzman. If you liked what you saw here, new episodes of Galaxy Brain<\/em> drop every Friday. You can subscribe on The Atlantic<\/em>\u2019s YouTube channel, or on Apple or Spotify or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. And if you want to support this work and the work of my fellow colleagues, you can subscribe to the publication at TheAtlantic.com\/Listener. That\u2019s TheAtlantic.com\/Listener. Thanks so much, and I\u2019ll see you on the internet.<\/p>\n

This episode of Galaxy Brain<\/em> was produced by Renee Klahr and engineered by Miguel Carrascal. Our theme is by Rob Smierciak. Claudine Ebeid is the executive producer of Atlantic<\/em> audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.<\/p>\n

Read more Atlantic Trivia: TV Shows<\/a><\/p>\n<\/section>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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